In my view, the earth is more than able to sustain not only the current global population, but a bigger one too. The problem is with with not the number of peoplein the world, but the way they're governed.

Thankyou Westonman for your lengthy reply
I am fully aware of the rich man and the eye of the needle, but my knowledge of the Bible is far less than yours.



I do not believe it is too late, very difficult to change yes, but not yet too late.

I was hoping that the "occupy St Paul's" would have prompted the Church to enter the debate about changing the current system and promote a fair and just economic model.

In my opinion we desperately need new ideas as to how we change the current capitalist system.

Vince Cable's announcement yesterday was not really inspiring at all.
I would like to see a national debate taking place as to the direction this country needs to take in order to survive.

Is it worth me putting up some of my ideas for debate?

Some of them would include:
1) eduction of the population regarding true wealth creation
2) amending the taxation system to encourage exports and "true wealth creation"
3) changes to the bonus system (not just Bankers bonuses)
4) free University education (with maintainence grants) for Maths, Science, Engineering and Medical studies
5) increasing the National Minimum wage to a true livable wage. (current Government proposals to cap Benefits to £26,000 pa is more than twice the current minimum wage!)
5) methods to discourage the "gambling" aspects of share ownership

Yes I had thought about that. If it really does get that bad then we will have my wife's extended family to help us. We will mark out 20m X 30 plots of land around the periphery of our land for them to live on. This will allow them to build houses and grow most. if not all of their own food. We will cultivate the bit in the middle. My wife's family also have some contacts with the "gun making" cottage industry should things get that bad.

Hi Oldmalhouse. Thanks for coming back. May I say at the outset that my last post was in no way intended to be a personal slight aimed at you in any way. My post was an honest representation of my views on the state of the nation. Quite rightly, you view the world through your eyes as an engineer, as well as other factors concerning your make-up, experience etc. Likewise, I view the world through my engineering experience, and that of a Bible believing Christian.

I am not saying the state of the nation is irreversible. However, I do suspect it is getting very close to being irreversible. The main point I am making is; we hear from politicians and 'experts' from all sorts of fields and backgrounds as to what the real reasons for the current state of the UK may be; but to date nobody has even come close to having anything like an answer to our problems. Even 'experts' from similar disciplines can't begin to agree on how to sort the mess out. We constantly hear as many recommendations as there are 'experts'.

We have tried Conservatism, Socialism, liberal Conservatism, New Labour Socialism (The Third Way), and now we have a blend of Liberalised Compassionate Conservatism advocating the Big Society (whatever that is supposed to mean). And to date the situation shows no sign of improving. Which suggests to me that politics does not have the answer to our problems. We have even tried surrendering our nationality to foreign powers and agencies,such as the EU, international big business and globalisation in general, all to no avail.

Open door immigration and multiculturalism have also failed to rescue the UK from relentless decline.

The current disconnect between the electorate and the elected, and the general scepticism held by the electorate towards all politicians, also suggest that the general public can see that politicians don't have the answers. From the financial collapse it is quite clear that the City doesn't have the answers. The results of the UK education system suggests that the answers don't lie within academia. The UK manufacturing sector shows no signs of being able to rescue the UK in the foreseeable future. Militarily the UK becomes weaker by the day, so there is no salvation there either, but there is the increased risk that the UK may not be able to defend itself. And the heavily burdened social and policing sectors are only capable of uncovering ever more problems – not resolving them.

To make matters worse, whenever anybody in any kind of authority offers a suggestion for a solution to the UK's problems they immediately find themselves overwhelmed by a barrage of disagreement from every other 'expert', as everybody is intent on doing what seems right in their own eyes, irrespective of the common interest. And recent history increasingly shows that minority groups have achieved an influence that far outstrips that of the conservative (small 'c') majority.

With decades of obvious failure by every human agency to come up with any kind of realistic solution to the UK's problems, it seems to me that it may be wise to look elsewhere for the answers to our problems. Which is why I offered a very brief example from the Scriptures as to what the fundamental problems with the UK may be. The Scriptures clearly teach that sin has serious repercussions and consequences for the individual and the nation. Over recent years there has been a steadily increasing trend by those in authority in the UK to deliberately overturn traditional Biblical standards, morals, and behaviour. At the same time, the nation has seen a reverse in its quality of life, a reduction in its wealth, an influx of aliens, and a serious reduction in its global influence. These reversals and "curses" are precisely the outcomes that the Scriptures teach will overcome a nation that deliberately turns its back on the Almighty God of the Holy Bible.

The UK's current situation is made more serious by our not-to-distant deliverance from overwhelming odds in WWII. When we were up against it the Church called for national repentance towards God and for national prayer for deliverance. We were eventually delivered; and the facts subsequently proved that our deliverance was a very close-run thing too; there were too many coincidences where the enemy made very silly mistakes against the allied forces invading the European mainland - if the enemy had not been so attached to making military decisions based on horoscopes and the position of the stars then the outcome of the war could easily have been very different. Since WWII this country has deliberately set a coarse that is in direct opposition to the teachings of the Bible – and now we find ourselves with apparently insoluble problems, and experiencing the same kind of curses I quoted in my last post.
I have to disagree with you there. In my opinion, the Church does have the answer to our problems, but the answer is not for the Church to offer political, economic, or social advice. The Church's responsibility is to unashamedly preach the life-changing gospel of Jesus Christ. A people that positively responds to the gospel and genuinely repents of evil are a people that are best placed to witness the grace of God influencing the national life and prosperity of the UK. Which is why I listed in my last post all those evil traits that have become part and parcel of UK national life; and why I likened those evil traits to the use of substandard materials in any engineering project.

Unfortunately, much of what calls itself the Church in the UK at this time is so far removed from its Biblical roots that it is an insult to even call it a church. The Church has largely become an unholy huddle of evil 'do-gooders' who are intent on undermining Biblical Christianity.

I actually think the destruction of the UK is deliberate; it IS the policy and has been for decades. That is the only explanation that fits the evidence.

That is another interesting angle, and I tend to agree with you. But that raises the question: do we get the leaders we deserve? When we look at the choices of leaders and authority figures we are offered, it seems we have little choice of policies and direction.

Do stories such as this one below shine any light on the steady decline in Britain's fortunes since WWII.
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/Articl ... 94,00.html

Personally I think the colonialism of the UK sticks in the craw of other member states, the empire status we once had, is against all ideas of a unified Europe. the Commonwealth is the yardstick that the aspirations of the pro Europe mob seek to achieve, and so far we remain in-tact albeit in a watered down version, England is still the motherland of a large proportion of the modern world, and the fatherland Germany like all households listens and knows its place, now Germany is run by another woman strong like Maggie was, so there you have it.

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Its not always the biggest and the bestest, its them that make the least mistakes.